G-DGFL2E9MJ5 Meditation, Social Anxiety and Spiritual Baggage - Being the Work

Episode 5

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Published on:

8th Jan 2024

Meditation, Social Anxiety and Spiritual Baggage

Today we're on self-care challenge field trip. Blakely's challenge was to embrace her vulnerability and practice loving kindness. And, Ben's challenge was to get out of his head and do some improve. Today, we attend a group meditation and share our experience and reflections on togetherness, spirituality and what's getting in the way of wellness.

Just a Note: this is an uncensored show full of our personal opinions. So you will hear us cuss sometimes.

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And remember, we're not YOUR helpers. Everything here is our opinion and is intended to support you, not give professional advice. Get the help you need, when you need it, where you need it. Here are a few resources for mental health support for you and those you love: 

National Alliance on Mental Illness

US Substance Use and Mental Health Services Administration

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Transcript
Ben:

Okay, so we're heading to a, a meditation.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Live

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Blakely: in person

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Ben: new places.

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Live in person, new places.

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So

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Blakely: right now I'm trying to drive

it and park, in a much more hectic part

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of our metro than, or I tend to go to.

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Very often.

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Ben: Yeah.

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So it's a new, new, new place in suburban,

caved dwellers, new place in the city.

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Newer, but there's

more traffic than usual.

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I

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Blakely: mean, believe it or not,

I used to like live right away.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I can do

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Ben: this's.

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I figured.

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You know where you're going.

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You've been here before.

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It's just been a decade or so,

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Blakely: right?

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Yeah, and I've never been

here for this purpose.

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I feel like I'm going to take a

meditation quiz, which I know defeats.

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Ah, right, sure.

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Yeah.

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I don't know that I've sat down to

meditate for a full half hour in a

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Ben: minute.

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that's true.

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I didn't think about that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Half hour.

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That's.

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Blakely: Gonna feel

like a long, long time.

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It's guided, it's okay.

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my lower back is probably

what's gonna feel the most.

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Ben: Oh, yeah.

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I, uh, I've been so.

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Focused on new people and new places.

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I haven't actually thought

about the actual meditation

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Blakely: of it all.

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I, I was mindful about how much

caffeine I consumed this morning.

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Oh, good.

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I didn't do my full usual Monday.

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I was not

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Ben: so, but I did have less.

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On accident.

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So that was good.

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Oh, I, uh, have done some

homework since last time.

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Okay.

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so the homework was to do some

improv Mm, To, to like, yeah.

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To get on the improv, get out

there, like do something silly.

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Yeah.

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And so my niece, she's in

tap right now, and, she.

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Said, Hey, let me teach you some stuff.

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And I go, ah, nah.

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And then she goes, come on.

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And I go, okay.

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Mm, okay,

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Blakely: I'll do it.

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This is the spirit.

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I'll do it of

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Ben: participation.

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I'll do it.

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I'll put my phone down,

I'll get up, I'll go do it.

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And so, I forget what she taught me.

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I forget the names of what she taught me.

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That's, but I, I tried, so, okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I'm, I'm, I'm, yeah, yeah.

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You're feeling it.

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Get, get a little out there.

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Get a little silly, feel a

little, you know, embarrassed.

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And this is, they

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Blakely: tore down the parking

garage that I'm used to using.

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Nice.

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Not

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Ben: the point.

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Yes, but it's right here, right?

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Yes.

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Like it's just

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Blakely: right here.

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Yes, it is nearby.

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Mm-Hmm.

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But as predicted, I did not

have the security of where

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I used to park 10 years ago.

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So

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Ben: how do you normally deal

with new situations like this?

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what's, what's the usual

experience for you?

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Blakely: it depends on if I

am alone or with someone else.

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That's probably a big factor.

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Ben: Okay.

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What's the difference?

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Blakely: Um, I, not knowing what I'm

doing alone feels much more risky than not

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knowing what I'm doing with someone else.

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Sure.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Blakely: safety in

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Ben: numbers.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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I mean, that's exactly

how I feel for sure.

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Yeah.

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I don't, this would be,

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Blakely: I run through

what I am familiar with.

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I.

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I did, I did know of a place to park,

but they have since torn it down.

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But I knew there was

another garage nearby.

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I've been in this facility

before and not in the exact room

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that they do this process in.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Um, but I've been here for

other events and talks, and I

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met Gloria Steinem here, so.

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You know.

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Oh, wow.

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Um, okay.

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yeah, so just going over what I

already know and things that make

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me feel more secure and, mm-hmm.

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Good things have happened here.

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And it's a a, an organization that I trust

anyway, so I don't feel like we're gonna

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fall into something like unplanned or

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Ben: right.

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Like some weird religious ritual.

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Ritual we.

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Yeah.

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That.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Some that's gonna make

you super uncomfortable,

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Blakely: right?

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Yeah.

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'cause I am church

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Ben: averse.

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Sure.

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Well, I, yeah, me too.

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And, and I don't know that I would,

I would just kind of dissociate

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if that started happening.

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Yeah.

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I put on

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Blakely: think, gets annoyed when I

say this, that I put on, I put on my.

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Social worker, brain and face and Mm.

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And do this false confidence of

if I act like I belong and I'm

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supposed to be here, and Sure.

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Usually if I'm wearing like

a lanyard with my Oh yeah.

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Work ID on it, I feel more legitimate.

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Mm-Hmm.

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So being just out here, just me.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Is a challenge.

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Mm.

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Ben: Right.

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I for?

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Blakely: Yeah.

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There's nothing authoritative about

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Ben: my presence here, like

the, the typical uniform

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and the lanyard and the id.

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Yep.

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Blakely: I'm wearing yoga pants.

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Mm-Hmm.

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So I feel,

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Ben: I see.

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I almost, I almost like dressed a

little bit more comfortable, but then

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I was like, oh, you're in public.

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You should probably have

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Blakely: jeans.

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Mm-Hmm.

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You're sitting on the floor, man.

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Oh fuck.

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I'm gonna ask you how the button

on those jeans feel in about

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Ben: 45 minutes.

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Oh.

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You know, it's, you know, it's coming

unbuttoned as soon as we get in there.

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Blakely: Are you opting

for a chair or a mat on the

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Ben: board?

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Probably start on a, on a cushion.

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Yeah.

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But I don't know that I could

do a cushion for that long.

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Yeah.

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But we'll see.

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Blakely: That's part of my

process is planning ahead.

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Like, am I picking a cushion

or am I picking a chair?

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Okay.

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Is lying down like Shavasana

and a vibe, an option.

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I'm not gonna be the,

the lone lying downer.

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Ben: I don't know.

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I'd feel super exposed

if I was doing that.

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Mostly

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Blakely: I'm just pump to do this the

first time so that every time after

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Ben: this Yeah.

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Feels more comfortable.

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Just rip the band-aid

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Blakely: off if this feels like something.

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is more routine.

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Right.

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It would be nice to find something

that we could do like Mm-Hmm.

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Every couple of weeks.

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Yeah.

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Add a lunch to it.

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It's a nice little zen moment.

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Ben: Right.

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so this morning.

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has been.

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More just for me, like forgetting what

I was doing and just knowing you've

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got an appointment to go to Mm mm-Hmm.

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And so, I just, I, I notice like, I, I

just don't pay attention to the details.

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Oh yeah.

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So that I can just go.

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You're going.

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Yeah.

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Just roll with it.

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With the flow Without overthinking.

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Yeah.

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cause otherwise it would just

be too overwhelming I think.

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And so, I mean all the details

that you're thinking about,

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I'm starting to get worried.

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And then I realized, oh yeah,

that's why you don't think about it.

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Don't think about it.

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It's like otherwise, the whole

experience going all the way up to it.

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you're just, it's gonna suck it, sure.

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I did realize for sure this last

week If I, if it was just up to me,

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I wouldn't be trying new things.

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Mm-Hmm.

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like you going with me,

definitely minimum 50% easier.

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Oh, completely.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Um, if not a hundred percent easier.

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Right.

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Also, I wouldn't be thinking about,

Hey, you gotta make sure that you're

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not taking yourself too seriously.

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Take some risks, do some new things.

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Just have some fun like, when I

was doing like the tap dance stuff.

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with my niece, cause I'm in my

head and I'm thinking about stuff

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all the time and it's just, That

is the, yeah, I mean, 'cause like

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Blakely: theme of your challenge

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Ben: right now.

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Like, I'm in my, I'm doing my

dissertation right now too,

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that's been on my mind a lot.

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And so it's not all super stressful

and I enjoy this topic, but it is like

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cerebral Yeah, the experience of it is

tense and knowing, this would be a good

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thing to be able to tell Blakely like,

Hey, I'm not blowing this off like so.

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No, it's, it's fun to be doing new stuff

and I'm, I'm feeling grateful that I

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have had some practice with meditation.

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I haven't done 30 minutes

straight though, so.

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Around other people either, right.

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So,

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Blakely: well, I've, I've done

yoga practice quite a bit.

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So this is like an extended ana?

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Yeah.

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Or more of a, I don't know, not

even like yin yoga, but the way that

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it slows down with some versions

of yoga, but uh, with no movement

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is gonna be interesting for me.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But it starts in like eight minutes and

then it's gonna be a little restless to

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Okay, just go find out where we're going.

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Yeah,

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Ben: let's go figure it out.

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Oh, all right.

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We're doing it.

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Updates later.

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So we just got done with the meditation.

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I'm sort of in a, Little weird space.

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I feel like,

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Blakely: okay, weird.

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Weird is a

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Ben: yes.

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So.

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just first thoughts off the top.

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Observations.

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Let 'em out.

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Yes.

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So I slowed down for sure.

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Alright, go ahead.

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my body was super tense the whole time.

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I felt sort of behind my eyes.

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it felt defensive.

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It felt protective, and

it felt very familiar.

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So, um, you know, it was something that.

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Maybe has been around for a while.

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Like I, it felt familiar,

like something about me.

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Blakely: Well, and is this

something that you find in me?

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Social situations?

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Oh, I was gonna say in meditation space

in particular, that you have sort of a no.

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A dome

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Ben: around you, if you will.

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No, no.

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It is social situations.

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It was like really hard to.

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Shake the feeling of being

perceived by other people.

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Oh, like the other people

in the room were bothersome?

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Yeah.

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which was more than I expected.

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but I didn't expect to

feel so tense either.

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I don't know why.

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'cause it felt very familiar,

like this is how I felt in

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social situations my entire life.

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Hmm.

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You know, and I, and I felt a

discomfort in my stomach through it.

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It was, it was nice to experience.

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To learn in a safe space

what I was feeling.

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Mm-Hmm.

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I always felt safe, but it was like,

oh, this is, this is wired, like this

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is connected to, something I've done

my life in my lifetime, So it felt odd.

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It also felt good to challenge

that and to try to just be in the

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presence of it and try to accept it.

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And then later I can, you

know, through practice.

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I think I could re like unwire that, but

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Blakely: So do you think putting those

things together may be sort of leveling

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up your, like both sides of the thing?

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Yeah, like the, the social

discomfort and the meditative.

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Yes.

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Safe space.

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Yes.

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Need to maybe come together anyway.

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Yes, yes, absolutely.

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I'm kind of feeling that

in a, but in a really

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Ben: different way, I think.

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Yeah.

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Tell me, what's your experience like?

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Well,

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Blakely: because I've been

grasping at this particular

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social feeling for a little bit.

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That like, like if you feel it, you feel

it and you know it, that awe inspiring.

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Like we're all in the same

moment, in the same place at

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the same time kind of feeling.

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Sure.

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And so I was kind of feeling that

energy on the super small side.

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Skill of just, I don't know how

many people were in that room.

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Yeah, less.

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Less than 10.

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Yeah.

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And sort of grabbing onto that

sense of we're all here for the same

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beautiful purpose, not just, I don't

know, not just a kid's soccer game,

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not just a concert, not just like

this is a very directly spiritual.

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Thing.

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And I haven't had that spiritual

setting in a really long time

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and not in a healthy way.

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Yeah.

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You know, very much at all.

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Right.

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or at least in a safe way.

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I,

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Ben: I like, that's, oh,

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. Wonderful.

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Blakely: and I'm not saying

that I, I got there, but it's

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something that I'm seeking.

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Sure.

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And so I was, I don't know.

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I felt more relaxed and open

than I would've thought I would.

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it didn't feel as long as I was afraid

it was gonna feel I wasn't as distracted

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as I was afraid I would be distracted.

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yeah.

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I, I need more of that is

just what I already know.

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Yeah.

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I felt, I felt like I didn't belong.

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huh.

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I don't, I don't know why.

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Is that related to just that

social, how you feel anyway?

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Yes, I think so.

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Regardless of that space.

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Yeah.

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There's a hanging

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Ben: ghost of, yeah.

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I feel like in most spaces and with

most new people, um, unless I have

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a role, like unless I have a job.

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To do that, that yeah.

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That authoritative feeling and not like,

not like, um, only in, in therapy spaces.

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Like I don't have to be in charge.

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Yeah.

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Be a purpose, but I need something to do.

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Like, I need to know

what to do with my hands.

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Right.

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Like, it, it feels like if I

have to just be present and

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be ready to improvise, I feel.

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Yeah.

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It's just like a, it's not a

fear, but it's a, a tension.

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And so, I don't know, but that,

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Blakely: I mean the, because

I feel that's so funny.

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'cause I feel, I think a similar thing,

but it's a very liberating to Mm-Hmm.

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Have, this is the only thing I'm supposed

to be doing right now feeling Mm mm-Hmm.

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There is nothing, I mean Sure.

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Everything I'm usually constantly

taking care of is taken care of.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And I'm, I.

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Can, even if I'm not able to entirely,

I have the, the permission to turn off.

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Yeah.

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A lot of extra Mm-Hmm.

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And a lot of extra thinking

and a lot of extra planning.

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Sure.

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A lot of extra caregiving and, Mm-Hmm.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Let things slowed down a lot.

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Blakely: There was less

in that moment for you.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Yeah.

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And just didn't have to be.

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And so when those started

to sort of Mm-hmm.

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Um, creep in.

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Mm-Hmm.

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I was able to put them back

down relatively easily.

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Yeah.

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That's

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Ben: nice.

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Um, that's nice.

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Blakely: Yeah.

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I was more prepared and able to be

present than I would have predicted.

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Ben: That's awesome.

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I mean, that's great.

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Um,

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how was it?

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And not having any movement.

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That was

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Blakely: strange.

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Yeah.

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I, I did have the thought

partway through that.

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Like I, my body feels more, more fluid

after going through yoga sequences.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And then sinking into that space.

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Right.

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And I don't know if that's

more just what I'm used to.

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Sure.

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Or if it does work that initial

tension out of my body so that it

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really feels like those muscles are

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Ben: blah.

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Right, right.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I feel like that that, 'cause

like I normally do my, my

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meditations while I'm walking.

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Blakely: I, that crossed

my mind as we were

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Ben: getting started too.

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Yeah.

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And so, like, I'm used to the

rhythm of it, like feeling my

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feet hit left, right, left right.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And, you know, letting my, you

know, censoring on my breath in

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that way while that's happening.

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It's just easier for me.

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and maybe not inherently, but

that's just the way I've practiced.

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That's for so long.

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Right?

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And there's such open space

while I'm practicing usually.

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And so to be in a smaller room

that was sort of dark to, and with

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all these new people, it felt just

like the space was even smaller.

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and without my body moving.

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It felt like the muscle

tension felt even smaller.

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So it, it like, it, it, I was

still able to like, be present

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with it and, and continually like,

redirect my mind to not judge it.

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Mm-Hmm.

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But it was very easy to be

in the judgmental space.

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and so it was more of a

non-judgment meditation which

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was nice to, to be practicing.

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but yeah, I guess it was less fulfilling

and satisfying than usual just 'cause

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it wasn't my normal meditation practice.

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Blakely: Do you think that

would improve Absolutely.

466

:

In returning to that

space and doing Mm-Hmm.

467

:

The repetition of it?

468

:

Yeah.

469

:

Absolutely.

470

:

Absolutely.

471

:

I was surprised at how

little guidance there was.

472

:

Mm-Hmm.

473

:

Throughout.

474

:

The leader.

475

:

Mm-Hmm.

476

:

Which it sounds like there are different

leaders to it on different days, which

477

:

makes me curious to try different days.

478

:

Sure.

479

:

but I expected a little bit more like of,

of a guided process throughout Mm-Hmm.

480

:

I think, and so she told us just

to hang out with the silence.

481

:

Right.

482

:

That was, I had to, 'cause I.

483

:

If I'm meditating, it usually is guided.

484

:

So I had to kind of get mm-hmm.

485

:

My own visualization space together.

486

:

Mm-Hmm.

487

:

And that really is what I felt like

my wandering in my mind was of, yeah.

488

:

Eh, no, I wanna sit here.

489

:

No, I wanna, I wanna be in a field.

490

:

Mm-Hmm.

491

:

No, I wanna be inside.

492

:

No, I wanna be by a creek.

493

:

Like, right.

494

:

Right.

495

:

Where I was like visualizing myself.

496

:

Mm-Hmm.

497

:

And then I was like, no, I'm in.

498

:

I'm already in a room.

499

:

Let's go back to the room I'm in.

500

:

And I was like traveling

too much in my brain.

501

:

Uhhuh.

502

:

Yeah.

503

:

For the purpose of the meditation.

504

:

So it seemed on topic,

but still distracting.

505

:

Right.

506

:

And so then I would.

507

:

The alarm bell in my mind,

would go thinking, thinking,

508

:

you thinking Not the breath.

509

:

Not the breath, not the breath,

not the breath, not the breath.

510

:

And then I would realize I'm

breathing in my chest and I'm like,

511

:

I'm supposed to breathe in my belly.

512

:

I'm supposed to breathe in my belly.

513

:

When I'm sitting in a chair like

this, I tend to breathe in my chest.

514

:

I should have sat on the floor.

515

:

I wonder if I can move to the floor now.

516

:

That would be really weird.

517

:

Uh, me too.

518

:

Ben: I thought that too.

519

:

Blakely: So my distractions were on topic.

520

:

Ben: Oh yeah.

521

:

Oh, oh, duh.

522

:

And I realize, of course, like

we were talking before, um, like

523

:

total wardrobe, you know, issue.

524

:

Like I should not have

worn jeans with a belt.

525

:

Like

526

:

I'm sitting there going, oh my God, okay.

527

:

Like I had to shift my

legs a lot to be like,

528

:

Blakely: I just wished I

had taken my shoes off.

529

:

That was

530

:

Ben: bad enough.

531

:

Yeah.

532

:

Yeah.

533

:

I mean.

534

:

A lot lessons learned, like it

would be good to go back and try

535

:

again, and yes, opportunities for

growth, see how it, how it would go.

536

:

yeah, it's just good to, good to try.

537

:

And

538

:

Blakely: I think really the

biggest benefit for me was

539

:

being outside of my home space.

540

:

Mm-Hmm.

541

:

Which I do everything in my home space.

542

:

Mm-Hmm.

543

:

I work there.

544

:

I, you know, I function

there, I live there.

545

:

Mm-Hmm.

546

:

And there are just too many distractions

of my differing roles Right.

547

:

In one space.

548

:

Mm-Hmm.

549

:

For me to be able to relax, so, yeah.

550

:

Yeah.

551

:

Being outside of that, I think is just.

552

:

Why it's itself helpful.

553

:

Ben: Oh, I was thinking, I was

wondering, we did some loving

554

:

kindness practice at the end.

555

:

Mm-Hmm.

556

:

Um, and that seemed very, I

mean, I think the loving kindness

557

:

chapter was the chapter that I

gave you for homework with Pima.

558

:

Correct.

559

:

So how was that?

560

:

I was curious while we were doing that.

561

:

It's

562

:

Blakely: another one of those things

that's, that's easier and nicer

563

:

in those spaces and that Mm-hmm.

564

:

That like feeling that I'm grasping at is

so resonant with that process, uhhuh, that

565

:

that global sense of I'm floating among

my connections to all other creatures and

566

:

humanity is an easier place to access.

567

:

Ben: Yeah.

568

:

I suppose you were just, I mean,

you were just, that was the first,

569

:

one of the first things you said.

570

:

Yeah.

571

:

Was like feeling connected

to people and more of a.

572

:

Yeah.

573

:

Being aware of that part of life.

574

:

Yeah.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

A

577

:

Blakely: sense of openness.

578

:

Mm-Hmm.

579

:

And letting some of that bounce

back to me in order to sort of

580

:

be a rainfall on the Mm-Hmm.

581

:

Fire that I'm talking about.

582

:

Ben: The, the cleansing fire that

somewhat burns things up, up.

583

:

Yeah.

584

:

Because when, when you don't intend

585

:

Blakely: it to, I had to sit and

observe that a little bit today.

586

:

But there was something nice about

closing out with the reminder that

587

:

yeah, someone is always putting

this energy out into the world.

588

:

'cause there were a lot of other

589

:

Ben: pieces of energy that are Yeah.

590

:

Yeah.

591

:

That was, that was nice.

592

:

And I think that's something

that I could get a little more.

593

:

I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm interested and,

and I want to get to know that, part

594

:

of other people that like actually

put this into the world, like they

595

:

are those folks that are in the room.

596

:

We overheard them talking a little bit

before we started and just, they're

597

:

all talking about being seeking or like

seeking spiritual awakening and, and.

598

:

just the goodness in life

and things like that.

599

:

And you know, that's the stuff

you don't really get a whole

600

:

lot of, I, I don't get a lot

601

:

Blakely: and well.

602

:

This also strikes me that you're

talking about like being uncomfortable

603

:

in social spaces in general.

604

:

And I have in a, for a long time,

been pretty uncomfortable in like,

605

:

like the community I live in.

606

:

I don't feel like there are

a lot of people like me.

607

:

I don't feel like people are thinking

about these kinds of things in the spaces

608

:

that I tend to be in in life right now.

609

:

Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.

610

:

So everyone thinking kind of on that

track and being motivated toward.

611

:

Goodness, and yeah, spiritual

improvement and just, yeah.

612

:

That being even a motivating

factor is, is mm-Hmm.

613

:

Just very comforting to me.

614

:

Ben: Yeah.

615

:

Yeah, yeah.

616

:

And like I'm encouraged, I'm encouraged

that your mind went there while,

617

:

while we were practicing, and I'm

encouraged because my mind didn't.

618

:

And I'm like, well, if, if Blakely can

be non-judgmental, I think I can, yeah.

619

:

But it just, it just

620

:

Blakely: reminds me that

I can actually do that.

621

:

Some of it is this self-protection

of what my life is right

622

:

Ben: now.

623

:

There was, so there was something

that she said at the very end when we

624

:

were doing the mindfulness or the, the

loving kindness, and it was just a word.

625

:

I don't remember the whole phrase

that she used, but she said, safety.

626

:

Mm.

627

:

And I remembered a, a, a meditation that

I've practiced that, was saying basically

628

:

like oftentimes when we're thinking

and we're, we're, we're seeking safety

629

:

in intellectual discourse in our mind.

630

:

Mm-Hmm.

631

:

And I'm like, duh.

632

:

Like that is totally me.

633

:

And, and so like, that's what I was

wrestling with the whole time and

634

:

trying to observe the wrestling.

635

:

You know, stop thinking, oh,

you're not thinking now, you're

636

:

thinking about not thinking like

it was, it was a lot of that.

637

:

And I noticed, I noticed the, there,

there are prejudices that I have around

638

:

spiritual people around woo woo stuff.

639

:

Yes.

640

:

Blakely: Yeah.

641

:

Yes.

642

:

I was wondering about

643

:

Ben: that.

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

And, and I think that that's

another, it was just another layer.

646

:

Of defense.

647

:

Yeah.

648

:

And desire for safety and security and

I don't know, like it was, it was good

649

:

to be in a, in a place where I could

observe that and see the multitudes

650

:

of about me and go, okay, yeah, that's

something that just needs more safety

651

:

and more allowance and more acceptance.

652

:

To then so we can change it.

653

:

Right.

654

:

Like it's, it's not something

I want in me, it's just there.

655

:

Blakely: Yeah.

656

:

I mean that's, I think that's something

I had to activate a long time ago

657

:

because of some spiritual trauma.

658

:

Sure.

659

:

Like I had very bad experiences with

religion, but was aware of like this

660

:

need for spiritual health development.

661

:

Mm-Hmm.

662

:

And I wonder if you have

found some of that spiritual.

663

:

Stuff since you left some

664

:

Ben: church stuff I have for myself, and

it's a very, like I know that it's, I've

665

:

protected it and not talked about it.

666

:

Yeah.

667

:

With many people and.

668

:

But

669

:

Blakely: even I have to acknowledge

that some of that is communal by nature.

670

:

Ben: Well, and and that's the thing is,

is I want it to be, I don't, it's, I want

671

:

it to be, but I want it to be like my,

in my heart of hearts, I want it to be,

672

:

but I've never experienced safety in it.

673

:

Mm-Hmm.

674

:

Either you comply and do the

thing that you're supposed to do.

675

:

Right.

676

:

And you're, you belong because of your

behavior or you're completely cut out.

677

:

Mm-Hmm.

678

:

And so.

679

:

When it's just this like, woo

woo, we're all connected stuff.

680

:

Mm-Hmm.

681

:

It doesn't resonate down in my

heart at a gut level, right?

682

:

Mm-Hmm.

683

:

Like, it, it, the, the system I

was born into is not accepting.

684

:

Mm-Hmm.

685

:

Right.

686

:

And, and, and that's my

sort of religious trauma.

687

:

Uh, you know, the, the, the rejection,

inherent rejection that I grew up with of

688

:

like, you better do this or else Mm-Hmm.

689

:

Sort of idea.

690

:

And even saying out loud, I feel

weird because it's like, I don't

691

:

know that it was never that explicit.

692

:

It was all like up for interpretation.

693

:

Oh, that's what's, that's what makes

it so complex and That's right.

694

:

And that, that sort of.

695

:

Blakely: It's up for interpretation

until you were being ostracized.

696

:

Ben: Exactly.

697

:

Exactly.

698

:

And so when you're shunned, you get it.

699

:

So the woowoo stuff, it, it, it makes

me uncomfortable because it makes

700

:

me feel like there's a system of

understanding or meaning that I might

701

:

get caught, caught in, because of my

desire to be connected with people.

702

:

Does that make sense?

703

:

Sort of like getting caught in a cult.

704

:

Blakely: Yeah, that's

what I was just thinking.

705

:

Ben: Yeah.

706

:

Like I don't want to get

707

:

Blakely: caught in cult.

708

:

Well, 'cause that's the foundation

of your spiritual learning is it's

709

:

this or you're, you're gonna drink

710

:

Ben: Kool-Aid.

711

:

Exactly.

712

:

Like, I won't be accepted for myself.

713

:

I have to.

714

:

It's actually flavored believe.

715

:

Flavored.

716

:

It's flavored.

717

:

Blakely: Not Kool-Aid.

718

:

But you know,

719

:

Ben: what about Gatorade?

720

:

I, I, I might like, Jim

721

:

Blakely: Jones was a fan of

grape flavor raid, apparently.

722

:

Oh.

723

:

Ben: Man.

724

:

Yikes.

725

:

Blakely: I've done my

726

:

Ben: cold research, so I

don't wanna be caught in.

727

:

But see, that's the thing is

like, I don't, I I'm suspicious.

728

:

Yes.

729

:

And I'm, I'm vigilant because I

don't know that I'll be, actually

730

:

be accepted by for myself as

731

:

Blakely: myself.

732

:

Well, that's the paradox, right?

733

:

You have to, you have to do the thing

in order to seek the acceptance, in

734

:

order to find out if the system is

735

:

Ben: accepting.

736

:

Exactly.

737

:

Yes.

738

:

Exactly.

739

:

And that's, that's part

of like the first step.

740

:

The first step, like, it's

like, it's that simple.

741

:

But why?

742

:

I know.

743

:

I, I noticed my judgment and I was

practicing trying to just let it

744

:

be and say, you're feeling unsafe.

745

:

You are safe.

746

:

You can keep, you can keep complaining.

747

:

Keep, keep crying.

748

:

Whatever you wanna do inside

Little Ben, like whatever is there.

749

:

Yes.

750

:

Just let it out.

751

:

This is the point.

752

:

Be present.

753

:

You know, I'm not gonna

tell you to shut up.

754

:

Just keep, keep at it.

755

:

Okay.

756

:

Yeah, keep doing it.

757

:

And I don't know, like it was, so I'm

758

:

Blakely: thinking that it was good.

759

:

Participation homework is

expanding into just more woo woo.

760

:

Oh.

761

:

No.

762

:

So now I gotta take Ben to

like the crystal shop and

763

:

get him a whole No, no, no

764

:

Ben: fortune.

765

:

No, no, no.

766

:

It is, this is the culty shit that it,

I don't, no, it's not about that stuff.

767

:

It's not about that stuff.

768

:

I will, if you wanna have

that stuff or lead me through

769

:

that stuff, I will accept you.

770

:

Mm-Hmm.

771

:

But that stuff is, what I'm

trying to get away from is like.

772

:

Every, everyone has their

773

:

Blakely: objects, every know

you're trying to get away from

774

:

something you've never been to.

775

:

Everybody

776

:

Ben: has their objects and, and

things that they find meaning in.

777

:

Yeah, right.

778

:

I don't want to, I have, I think I have

been gaslit and gaslit myself long enough

779

:

to believe that there's another thing

out there that I just need to go get.

780

:

Then finally, I'll be okay.

781

:

And I'm, and I need to, oh, I

782

:

Blakely: don't dunno what

that, I'm not following what

783

:

that has to do with anything.

784

:

Carry on.

785

:

Ben: it's the system of understanding.

786

:

The system of belief.

787

:

Yeah.

788

:

Right.

789

:

That's where my mind would go

if I went to go get that stuff.

790

:

Blakely: To get What stuff?

791

:

What are you getting?

792

:

The crystals.

793

:

We don't actually have to get stuff.

794

:

My all I'm whatcha are

you talking about man?

795

:

I didn't say you had to buy anything.

796

:

Slow down.

797

:

Slow down.

798

:

Okay.

799

:

Thank

800

:

Ben: you.

801

:

Thank you.

802

:

Thank you.

803

:

My

804

:

Blakely: point mm-Hmm.

805

:

Of taking you to new spaces.

806

:

Mm-Hmm.

807

:

Is expanding.

808

:

Exactly what you're talking about is

the concept of what spaces even exist.

809

:

Mm-Hmm.

810

:

If you're talking about you have

isolated in one spiritual space Mm-Hmm.

811

:

And expanding what you are going to be,

the fully authentic space that you are

812

:

accepted and who you are is probably

somewhere you have not visited before.

813

:

Sure.

814

:

Yes.

815

:

Like just by default.

816

:

Yes.

817

:

Yes.

818

:

And I'm not saying you'll find

yourself there or anything

819

:

you want to purchase there.

820

:

Yeah.

821

:

I'm just saying expanding the horizons

of what even your concept of right

822

:

spirituality and meta is right.

823

:

Is growth on its own.

824

:

No, I, hiding from

825

:

Ben: what is, I appreciate the

pushback on my fear and, and the

826

:

little explosion of fear I had there.

827

:

Blakely: I'm still gonna buy you like a

tiger's eye or some hematite or something.

828

:

Okay.

829

:

Ben: And it

830

:

Blakely: will be gifted, so it counts.

831

:

Ben: yes.

832

:

That's okay.

833

:

Yes.

834

:

Coming.

835

:

Okay.

836

:

So like, yes.

837

:

I thank you.

838

:

Thank you.

839

:

I do need to expand my horizons

and that is a part of all of this

840

:

homework is to accept, accept reality.

841

:

To accept me.

842

:

See where I have limited myself

and to expand and so, yeah.

843

:

Yeah.

844

:

I'm, I am grateful.

845

:

I am grateful to go through

all of this with you.

846

:

And I'm grateful that you're here to

help me with it, because otherwise

847

:

I'd be having this conversation in

my head and it wouldn't be good.

848

:

Blakely: It it wouldn't and

you would never go back.

849

:

Ben: Uh, it just, yeah, no.

850

:

Nah, I wouldn't.

851

:

But that's the growth, to be honest.

852

:

No, that's honest.

853

:

Yeah.

854

:

Yeah, yeah.

855

:

This is how we grow though, Uhhuh.

856

:

It's weird, right?

857

:

That, that we're doing self-care.

858

:

Mm.

859

:

But we're together.

860

:

Yeah.

861

:

What.

862

:

WI mean like community is important.

863

:

Blakely: I have to put

on my own oxygen mask

864

:

Ben: first.

865

:

Oh, you know, you just need

to go take care of yourself.

866

:

Sounds like you got some

867

:

Blakely: therapy to do.

868

:

Well, 'cause what the fuck else could

we have done with this time today?

869

:

Go do that.

870

:

I can tell you what I would've

done with this time today

871

:

is laundry and sure dishes.

872

:

Mm-Hmm.

873

:

And paperwork.

874

:

Mm-Hmm.

875

:

Those were are the three

hanging things on my list.

876

:

Mm-Hmm.

877

:

I was out of town all last week.

878

:

I have shit that has piled up that exists.

879

:

Mm-Hmm.

880

:

But I am going to be better

having set all of that shit down

881

:

for a minute to find myself.

882

:

Mm.

883

:

Before I keep chasing and chasing and

chasing all of the accomplishments

884

:

of whatever my jobs are,

885

:

Ben: being overdoing I

886

:

Blakely: chose to be.

887

:

Mm-Hmm.

888

:

Now

889

:

Ben: I have to do Mm-Hmm.

890

:

But first I want lunch being overdoing.

891

:

Now it's lunchtime.

892

:

We, uh, are appreciative of

all of you that are listening

893

:

and we appreciate you as well.

894

:

Um, the, I don't know, we

895

:

Blakely: will continue to be the

walking and talking experiments

896

:

if you will continue to tune

897

:

Ben: in.

898

:

Yeah.

899

:

I mean, we probably will

anyway to live vicariously.

900

:

Yeah, we probably will anyway

because that's just what we do.

901

:

But, uh, we really

appreciate you listening.

902

:

We don't know exactly who

you are, just quite yet.

903

:

And, we would love to know you.

904

:

So if you would like to reach out

to us, we would love to hear from

905

:

you and what are you trying to do

so we can help support you as well.

906

:

'cause self-care.

907

:

By yourself is bullshit.

908

:

I just, I'm just going to tell you that.

909

:

So that's my experience, that's my truth.

910

:

And now we're gonna go get lunch.

911

:

It's taco time, so taco time.

912

:

All right.

913

:

Bye.

914

:

See

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About the Podcast

Being the Work
Getting real about the lives of mental health professionals
Conversations with therapists, for therapists courageously cracking into our unspoken experiences. We seek to put voice to taboo topics in the helping professions, deepen our connections to each other, and ask the difficult questions of what it is to be fully human and a helper at the same time.
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