G-DGFL2E9MJ5 Therapists Doing Self-care together - Being the Work

Episode 1

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Published on:

4th Dec 2023

Let's Self-care, Together

We're back! And, to kick off season 3, Let us introduce ourselves to you. We dive into a discussion about personal traits and their impact on our work, friendship, and journeys with self-care as Professional Helpers and now...Podcast hosts.

Don't self-care alone! Let us know about your journey!

Just in case you want them, here are the books we reference.

Enneagram

  • Enneagram Institute to figure out the difference between 4 and 9.
  • The Essential Enneagram- David Daniels & Virginia Price
  • The Road Back to You- Ian Cron & Suzanne Stabile

Mindfulness resource- Waking Up app

And...As Always remember, we aren't your helpers. What you hear and read is solely our opinion. Please seek your own professional help if you need it.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, everyone.

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Welcome back.

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This is Being the Work.

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I'm Ben, and I'm here with my

good friend, Blakely Adams.

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We're starting season three.

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Being the Work was created three years

ago, you know, it's a podcast all

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about bringing you our journeys towards

self care, supporting each other,

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supporting you.

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on your journey to self care, trying to

give just more humanity to that term.

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, . We've been through a lot and

we've grown through a lot.

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Blakely: started planning another set

of conversations to share and realized

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that Through this process, we've, we

have changed, we have grown, we have

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tried new things, we've quit doing

things, and so much of it is because

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of this process that I, at least, I'm

excited to reinvest in, in what we're

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doing here and how it's going and, and

report back what, what this means to

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us and what being involved with it has,

has kind of changed for me personally.

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Ben: yeah, definitely is.

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It's definitely like spurred on a lot

more like intentional self care for me.

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when I look back on all the things that

have happened maybe in the last three

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years from the pandemic to, Some near

death experiences with some family members

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with, other traumatic experiences while

also having these conversations And the

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interviews that we've done on my mind,

it really has been like just this, like.

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Big opening, this vastness of,

understanding what compassion really is.

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Blakely: Mm.

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Ben: And especially this challenge of

self compassion I mean, it really has,

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I feel like it's really starting to

settle in, like, why, what's the point?

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What the point of, of expecting

yourself to not be flawed?.

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I had a, I had a sort of breakthrough

in my therapy the other week

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we were so close to finishing that

intro, but we, sorry, I was too excited

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to talk about the breakthrough that

I've had in my therapy recently,

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um, that sort of led into a

conversation about the Enneagram and.

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How I'm understanding myself and all

that, I started therapy not too long

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ago after a traumatic incident with,

uh, my dogs and my dogs are fine.

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Um, they've bounced back really well

and a whole lot faster than I did.

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but it, enforces, reinforces

just this whole idea that.

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To do our jobs, we need to be well and,

we need to take care of ourselves and

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it's, I don't know about you, but it's a

lot easier for me to take care of myself

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when I know there are people out there

who really care and who are behind me.

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So today we're going to go through

just how we understand each other.

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We use some common language that is

popular out there, um, Enneagram,

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Zodiac Signs, Strength Finder, uh, Myers

Briggs, all of which could be somewhat

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problematic, but point is the common

language and the springboard to help

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us, discuss our lived experiences.

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know what it's like to be helping

professionals that always have huge

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caseloads and every moment of the

day is is taxed by things that need

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our attention from documentation and

administration and, and the people

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that need help and are suffering

and how it's easy it is to kick

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our own, needs, down the road.

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I hope you can relate to some of

the things that we're going through.

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if you have any stories,

questions, have any ideas for

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Blakely and I to try for self care?

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We would love to hear from you.

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You can get a hold of us on

Instagram, at beingthework We're

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on LinkedIn at the same handle now.

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You can also email us

beingthework at gmail.

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com there's a lot of professionals

out there that do this work that are

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feeling the same ways that we are

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We would love to be able to reach them.

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And if you'd like to support the

podcast, please go out to iTunes or

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any listening app that you're using

and leave us a positive review.

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It'll really help get the word out

so we can reach those folks as well.

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Another way that you can support

this podcast is At patrion.com/being

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the work we've opened up.

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To begin to get a community together.

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so yeah, check us out there again,

that's patrion.com/being the work.

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You can also support this podcast.

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by going to being the work.com/support.

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you can find that link in the show notes.

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We bring this work to you on our free

time because we are passionate about this.

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It would be, great to, help

us just pay for the platforms

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that we're using for this.

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So if you'd like to support the

show, please leave us a tip.

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That would be amazing, amazing, amazing.

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We care about what we're doing here,

and we just want to support you in

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living a life that is meaningful

to you, and helping others find

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meaning for their lives as well.

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So, without further ado, we are so

excited to bring you this conversation....

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About the update of where we are

in our lives of helping and trying

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to Move forward in being the work.

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Yeah, so, okay, , I was reading

through, the, the Suzanne Stabile,

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Blakely: Oh yeah.

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Ben: So I'm walking the dogs and I'm

listening to this chapter on number

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nines and I'm like, Oh, I do that.

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Oh, I do that too.

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I totally do that.

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Oh my God.

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I remember when I did

that when I was five.

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Like more and more, the whole

chapter, I'm just sitting there going.

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Oh, yeah, oh, oh, ah, just

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Blakely: Huh.

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Ben: ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

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then I read, and then I read

the, the chapter on the fours.

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And I'm like, no, no, no, oh,

yeah, uh huh, yeah, that, oh,

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but that's very much a nine.

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it was just like, incredible, just

the amount of resonance from the

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nine chapter versus the four chapter.

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Blakely: Okay.

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Ben: but the, the idea of shame, from

the four perspective, is very much a,

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That from the nines perspective, it feels

like it's your voice isn't asked for.

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don't provide it.

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and so that the, I don't know that

I can trust myself kind of feel.

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then the, and then the four,

they feel like they're completely

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different from everyone.

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Right.

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But they're not hidden about it.

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They are pursuing.

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to be seen, and I don't do that.

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Blakely: But that's an action.

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Like, I don't, I don't know.

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I don't know that I'm convinced

that the behavior is the answer.

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Like, that doesn't mean

that you're a four.

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But I think that the motivation

is the, is the key piece, right?

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It what you do to get there.

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If you're not an extrovert, but you're

a four, you're going to handle that

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differently than if an extroverted four.

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Ben: sure.

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Blakely: This process that we are on

right now would indicate that you are

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very actively seeking for people to listen

to your perspective and understand you.

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So there's a piece sense that isn't.

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That isn't necessarily an

artistically exuberant thing,

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but it's still art artistry.

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Ben: Okay, healthy nines.

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mediators, they see value and

perspective of other people.

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and can harmonize what seems

irreconcilable points of view.

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Unselfish, flexible, inclusive,

seldom attach their own way of

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seeing or doing things, learn to make

decisions based on right priority,

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inspiring self actualized people.

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So like, the, the

relationship with others.

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Is no longer about like, it's there is

a desire for comfort because that's,

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that's the nines, deadly sin or whatever.

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Blakely: Sloth.

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Ben: that's their, yeah, where

I've been overly dependent, dull

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to feelings of sadness, anger.

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so, I

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Blakely: I read the

misidentifying fours and nines

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the Enneagram Institute?

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Ben: yes,

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Blakely: Let's see what that says.

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Ben: please, mm hmm,

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Blakely: Some average nines think

that they are fours because they

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have artistic talents and creative

inclinations of one kind or another.

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As in the case of love not being the

sole domain of twos, artistic capacity

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is not the sole province of force.

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other types can be and often are

artists, even so the artistry of

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fours is much more personal and self

revealing than that of the nines.

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The art of nines often

expresses idealized mythological

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worlds, usually the real world glossed

into something fantastic and wondrous.

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Nines are often gifted storytellers,

in which, and they all lived

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happily ever after, is assured.

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There are no unhappy endings in

the nines world of make believe.

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By contrast, the art of fours

generally more personal and realistic.

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The expression of the fours, and deep

longing for love, wholeness, and meaning.

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Ben: goddammit.

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Blakely: often deal in the tragic.

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Finding redemption in self transcendence.

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Nine's deal in the commonplace.

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Finding comfort in

ordinary lives and simple

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Ben: Fuck you.

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Okay.

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Mm

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Blakely: Ha ha ha!

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Boo!

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And I didn't rea I, I was glancing

at it, because of course I was

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Googling it while we were talking,

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and I saw something about the

fantastical versus the, like, idealized.

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Or, sorry, the fantastical

versus the personal.

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Ben: hmm.

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Blakely: I was like, let me see what

this is, because it may be saying

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kind of what I'm wondering about.

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Ben: Sure.

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Sure.

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Blakely: The principal reason

these types may be confused is

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they are both withdrawn types.

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Ben: Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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Blakely: from others so that

they can protect themselves time

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to deal with their emotions.

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Ben: Mm

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Blakely: on the other are withdrawn.

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Are withdrawn in the sense that they

remove their attention from people

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or situations that threaten them,

disengaging themselves emotionally so

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that they will not be anxious or upset.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Okay.

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Blakely: That's

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Ben: I mean, definitely,

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Blakely: like

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Ben: definitely, are resonating.

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Yeah.

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Blakely: but both do right.

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Average to unhealthy nines, tune out

any unpleasantness by dissociating

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from whatever upsets them.

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This is why you only watch comedies.

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Ben: But, that's in response to my job.

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Which

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Blakely: response I'm

looking at this work.

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I'm looking at your dissertation work.

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I'm looking at your entire

career, all of that.

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All of that, everything that I've ever

spoken to you about, and the reason

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that probably close friends that aren't

just hangout friends, are actual, like,

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existential level friends, is cause

of some of that more intense stuff.

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You're talking about

everyone's connectability.

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So

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Ben: because I was researching your stuff

you know, it's interesting that we're

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going through, sort of like a check in

or even maybe a reintroducing ourselves

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to the people that are listening.

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But, like, You really like the question to

our guests, give us the, the bullet points

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of the cheat sheet of who, who are you and

what's your, what's your personality like?

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so Myers Briggs, which I'm not

really great at, you're really

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good at Obviously, the Enneagram,

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What's the other one?

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Blakely: StrengthsFinder.

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Ben: Yeah, I didn't do that

one, for today, but your INTP.

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deep thinker, complex interconnection of

the world, quest for truth, meticulous

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consideration of complexities, that, yeah,

that's part of like why, like, okay, so

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like that and some of this other stuff,

like the Sagittarius Capricorn stuff, I

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just sort of lit, made list of strengths,

like curious, interested, aspirational,

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practical, honest, deep thinking.

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It's like this mixture of, Reason and

emotion to me, that's way I'm kind of.

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thinking about it,

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Blakely: That makes sense.

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Ben: like your ability to catch on to

that pattern of something that I'm talking

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about, when I was reading the chapter

on, on nines, all of the behaviors.

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did seem like a spitting image of

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Blakely: Mm hmm.

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Ben: but I did feel like the, the

motivation sort of was missing,

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Blakely: Mm hmm.

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that's what bothered me about that book

in general I hear Suzanne speak, and

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she speaks to the motivation primarily.

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She keeps going back

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Ben: Mm hmm.

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Mm

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hmm.

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Blakely: And then I read that book,

and there's so much there that is

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about this, like, almost an archetype

of the behavior of the person.

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Ben: Exactly.

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Blakely: Some does, some soul

does not fit me from both types

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that I've considered that.

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It kind of loses me, and so I just

have to go back like, awareness

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of my motivations, my awareness

of those, the instinctual things,

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Ben: right.

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right.

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Blakely: rather than the habits,

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Ben: Which I also, that's part of why I

don't like the Myers Briggs, is because

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it's, it's like archetypal kind of

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Blakely: very much.

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Ben: discussion, and it's like, here, here

is your box, and I don't see it that way.

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I'm, I'm very much we are so complex.

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we're, we're dynamic We're

not, building blocks.

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not legos.

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Blakely: I'm also kind of cheating,

because my other dude best friend is

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a nine, Which, that seems easy to say,

but, he behaves as a nine much more.

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Ben: you're talking, um, seeks

comfort, avoids conflict, or even,

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like, the hard, truths of life, maybe.

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Blakely: well, and even the stuff of,

like, he's a very creative person,

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and so much of that resides in a

lot of, like, consumption of and

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movies and television and, things

that are in sort of that fantastical

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world place typically happy endings.

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Not the deep emotional stuff.

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The, let's see.

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Both types can be shy,

absent minded, confused, and

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detached from the real world.

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The difference is that the nines

are detached both from the external

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world, And from their emotions.

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Whereas fours withdraw from

whatever has caused them pain,

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Ben: Oh.

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Blakely: Nines see the world

through rose colored glasses, and

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their view of it is comforting.

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Whereas fours see the world from a garret

window as outsiders and are not comforted.

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Everyone else seems to be living

a happier, more normal life.

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Contrast the Oh.

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Oh, they're using, like, celebrities.

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I don't want to do that.

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Ben: Got it.

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Blakely: A bunch of dudes from history.

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Like, those tell me anything about me.

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Thanks.

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Dead white men don't tell me about me.

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Ben: Ha ha ha ha

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Blakely: that's where you lost me.

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Ben: ha

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Blakely: I was in, and now I'm out.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: Uh,

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Ben: No, okay, well, I guess it's not as

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Blakely: and I can see you living

in place, and I don't know.

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The only reason this is true is if we

buy into this concept of nine set types.

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And it seems to show up

as true most of the time.

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Ben: what seems to really resonate

with me is this beauty in pain,

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uh, beauty and sadness, like beauty

and, uh, just the sort of tragic.

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Blakely: And that appreciation alone

still makes me lean in the four direction.

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Because you're, I mean, you're

anything but a Pollyanna.

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much this is gender socialization?

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And how much of this is generational?

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top of, like, those cultural

elements you as a person?

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Ben: this is sort of, it's reminding me

of our, our name, being the work, like

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we're trying to understand ourselves and

we're trying to, figure out how we can

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live lives that, that really work well

for us, that are, not just objectified,

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I want to be, I want to be me.

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And, I wanna be appreciated for me.

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Blakely: Absolutely.

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Ben: and I, I really appreciate

what I do and I appreciate

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the people who do what I do.

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of course, that we have the ability the

privilege to be helping people understand

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themselves and, be willing to grow

and do the hard things that they need

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to do to understand and to to change.

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And, I mean, I had a session

yesterday that was exquisitely

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painful and just enormously beautiful.

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Like there's just this

precipice of that's the future.

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This is the pain of the present right now.

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I am so sorry that this is the truth and

that this is what you've been living with.

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also we've got to continue to

look and I mean, you have the

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option of going backwards.

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I mean, it's that existential

red pill, blue pill thing, right?

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What Are you going to live in the full

reality of who you are and what you need

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and what you love and what you value?

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Or are you going to go backwards and

continue to objectify yourself and expect

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yourself to just accept and be fulfilled

by the things that aren't fulfilling?

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And treat you poorly, And take advantage

of you and flattening yourself to 2d

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Blakely: Mm.

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Ben: it was painful.

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I didn't want to be there.

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I found myself even wanting

to intellectualize to a place

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of just soothing myself.

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Blakely: Mm.

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Ben: I found myself doing that.

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And I was like, no, no, just stop.

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I, and I apologized.

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I was like, no, I'm doing it.

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Like I'm trying to give us an out.

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I feel like we should, like,

this is really important.

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And I just want you to

know I'm here with you.

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Oh, lots of tears, lots of heaviness.

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And think this is going to be very good.

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Like I'm very excited for this.

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And I'm also very sorry.

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That I facilitated that pain, but I'm

not sorry that I facilitated the honesty.

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Oh, it was beautiful.

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And so I don't know,

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Blakely: pain and conflict kind of fall

in the same category in that way, in

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the way that I have to think about them.

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Like pain with a purpose.

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There's no reason be sorry for that.

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is part of the process.

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Life is suffering.

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We have to suffer to grow.

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Growing pains exist for a reason.

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Feel it because it deserves to be felt.

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The pain is a message.

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Pain we choose has a different

kind of power than upon us.

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pain of growing through our trauma can be

powerful enough counteract the agony of

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enduring our trauma in the first place.

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Ben: It's, uh, yeah, it's incredible.

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Yeah, it really is.

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Blakely: Well, and just simple ways

of pushing them through the pain.

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That's just not as, it's not

the same, but it feels similar.

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You my five year old wants to

climb trees and she scrapes her leg

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Ben: right.

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Blakely: to tell her that's part

of being someone who climbs trees.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: Wear it.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: You earned your scrapes.

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Ben: That's funny.

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/

I had a, I had a sort of breakthrough in my therapy the other week about this.

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specific topic, which

was really interesting.

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I don't know if you, if we should

get into this right now, but it was

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really cool because, my therapist like

helped me sort of name different parts

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of, of myself and my experiences.

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And then, I don't know why, but I named

this part of me Ferdinand, like the bull.

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Yeah.

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And I have no idea why.

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I've never read that book, But

it just popped into my head

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as, as it, as we were doing it.

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And,

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Blakely: Well, and are you partly

talking about the division between

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yourself in, like, counseling

spaces and personal spaces?

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Ben: For sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's exactly what I'm talking about.

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Like I didn't, for whatever reason, I

didn't put two and two together that, the

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passion and amount of empathy that I put

toward other people, and how much I care.

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for others that I could

do that for myself.

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I mean, it sounds incredibly

simple, but it is astonishingly,

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astonishingly, just how little I see it

387

:

Blakely: the most important stuff

is very simple and not easy.

388

:

Ben: So simple.

389

:

Blakely: what is mindfulness?

390

:

We all know it, all it,

all teaching it, probably.

391

:

So simple

392

:

and So

393

:

challenging.

394

:

Ben: this, this process with my therapist

was really built on all of the mindfulness

395

:

training I did for myself rather

than trying to learn it to teach it.

396

:

And, yeah, I just sat with it

and, and I saw, I saw the, the

397

:

thousands, like, okay, so Ferdinand.

398

:

Was looking like a bull in my mind,

not me, but I knew him as like, very

399

:

recognizable, sort of like a dream.

400

:

Like we were doing mindfulness.

401

:

We were doing some EMDR and I saw

him as a very recognizable person,

402

:

but I didn't know exactly who he was.

403

:

And there was me, like we were

just sitting with each other.

404

:

And then it was just like this aha

connection, like holy shit, that's me.

405

:

Oh my god, he's sitting with

me like I sit with others.

406

:

this immense, just empathy, unconditional

regard, and openness and genuineness.

407

:

Like, you are allowed here.

408

:

And I go, oh my god.

409

:

Like, holy

410

:

shit.

411

:

Blakely: You know what I do sometimes?

412

:

Ben: Oh,

413

:

Blakely: When I'm cruising around,

I don't like to take the highways

414

:

all the time, and so on my GPS I'll

turn the avoid highways settings on.

415

:

And then I'm going somewhere and

I'm like, why does it take 45

416

:

minutes to go right over there?

417

:

And then if I just flip that setting,

418

:

what was 45 minutes

turns out to be like 10.

419

:

Because I don't have to go from point

A and B, which as the crow are a mile

420

:

apart, and go 15 miles around on this back

You've been back roading your whole life

421

:

Ben: Yeah.

422

:

Blakely: on just how you like

internally support yourself.

423

:

Ben: Yeah.

424

:

Blakely: Shit,

425

:

Ben: Yeah.

426

:

Yeah.

427

:

It was incredible.

428

:

Blakely: man, this never stops.

429

:

Ben: No.

430

:

Blakely: And it's right in this space.

431

:

It's you and me.

432

:

And the reason that I want to keep

pushing this out and want to keep

433

:

spreading it as I'm convinced is not

just you and me, that this parallel

434

:

process of how we keep growing finding

435

:

Ben: Right.

436

:

Blakely: the concentric circles

of like who we are and how can

437

:

be and what's inside of us.

438

:

that thing that they taught us

about, like, we only use like 10

439

:

percent of our brains back in the

440

:

Ben: Sure.

441

:

Sure.

442

:

Blakely: Like this is what they meant.

443

:

You drew a literal line

where there wasn't one

444

:

before.

445

:

And those things were so close together,

they just didn't have a connecting

446

:

Ben: But that's the funny part, right?

447

:

it had to be facilitated.

448

:

I didn't actually draw it.

449

:

was a part of me that naturally in that

moment, because the setting was correct,

450

:

the things were set to give this.

451

:

it naturally emerged.

452

:

It was not something that I chose to draw.

453

:

Because it wasn't even in my

consciousness, didn't even know.

454

:

And that's the piece that's

like, Okay, like, we are trained

455

:

to do all this stuff so...

456

:

meticulously and expertly and

all of this, we forget often

457

:

just the power of the unknown

458

:

Blakely: Yeah.

459

:

Ben: So I don't know.

460

:

I think that is the essence of being

the work, we have to slow down.

461

:

We have to take care of ourselves

and take care of each other

462

:

and look out for one another.

463

:

Blakely: and being the work

may be the ambitious, like the

464

:

ultimate self actualization point.

465

:

Because as we go through it, It's

continual, it's not linear, but it is

466

:

a process of becoming It's becoming

a part of the, discipline required

467

:

to care for and appreciate

and nurture myself.

468

:

Ben: no one else will do it.

469

:

Blakely: and no one else gives a

470

:

Ben: no, no,

471

:

Blakely: and this one of those things that

this is the point that again, this is how

472

:

we're probably different in the room is

I'll apologize for saying it, but the fact

473

:

of the matter is no one else gives a shit.

474

:

No cares as much as you do about

what's happening inside of you.

475

:

They can't

476

:

they have their own.

477

:

Ben: It's just impossible.

478

:

Blakely: It's impossible.

479

:

It's just not possible.

480

:

No one else can care as much about all

of these internal processes as you,

481

:

because they don't even know they exist.

482

:

You barely know they exist.

483

:

You're talking about not having this very,

like, close together point of connecting

484

:

that couldn't create for yourself,

485

:

Ben: Yeah.

486

:

Just,

487

:

Blakely: this point of facilitation.

488

:

Ben: yeah.

489

:

Back to back with this, part of me.

490

:

Blakely: And I have to continually point

out that Ben does not like for me to

491

:

say, What you need resides within you.

492

:

Ben wants the reaching out.

493

:

And I, I, and I requiring people be part

my And this is just what I'm talking

494

:

about, our parallel processes these

like, two sided coins and we come at

495

:

things from opposite directions and then

we end up in the same fucking place.

496

:

Ben: hmm.

497

:

Blakely: I don't want

someone else involved.

498

:

Even if I need it, and that's what's

hard for me, and you don't want

499

:

to, like, journey within, alone,

even when that's what's required.

500

:

Ben: Why do you think that is?

501

:

because, I mean, for me,

I have felt alone a lot.

502

:

that's, it's, an incredibly familiar

503

:

Blakely: Yeah, and that's, and me too, and

that's why it's hard for me to understand

504

:

the, but you're the only one that you

know you can trust with this stuff.

505

:

Ben: I'm the only one that I know I can

trust, but I long to not be the only one.

506

:

Blakely: Ooh, and that was an eight

statement I just made, I'm realizing.

507

:

Ben: Yeah, absolutely.

508

:

Blakely: you've been alone so much,

you're the only one you can trust.

509

:

Ben: Right.

510

:

Right.

511

:

Blakely: And, and I don't necessarily

512

:

Ben: I don't know which one is it.

513

:

Which one is it?

514

:

Sagittarius or Capricorn that

is, uh, high standard, stubborn,

515

:

aloof, and put walls up.

516

:

Yeah, your walls are like, it's this

perfect, happening of me, I don't know

517

:

why exactly, but wanting to get overthrew

under your walls, that kind of got us into

518

:

this dance of, are we going to be friends?

519

:

Blakely: right,

520

:

Ben: Because you don't trust people

very easy, and you, you judge quickly,

521

:

and like, I gotta figure out if this

person's gonna be consistent, and

522

:

always looking for inconsistent, and

pattern, finding, and, seeing how

523

:

much of the complexity really is this.

524

:

Is this consistent?

525

:

And that, INTP quest for truth?

526

:

and then when you find

it, you stick to it.

527

:

Like better, yes.

528

:

Like you better fucking stay

with that or else kind of thing.

529

:

You like, oh, it said,

uh, demands precision.

530

:

Blakely: mm

531

:

hmm,

532

:

oh,

533

:

into a semantics argument

with me, Ben, oh my gosh.

534

:

Ben: Right.

535

:

Blakely: How times have my,

like, marital arguments landed on

536

:

that's not the one word I used.

537

:

I used this other word, which

has a different meaning.

538

:

And I'm feeling irritated just

about it right now because I

539

:

choose my words on purpose.

540

:

Ben: hmm.

541

:

Right.

542

:

you choose them quickly, too,

which is is really mind boggling

543

:

to me for you, it's like.

544

:

You go through that process in 0.

545

:

3 seconds and know what

you're going to say.

546

:

Blakely: it's...

547

:

It's a, um, it's a reverse process

because I think I became aware that my

548

:

ways of expressing myself needed to be

precise in order for people to hear me

549

:

because I was a forceful kind of child.

550

:

I had big opinions and big ideas

and questions, huge questions.

551

:

And I got a lot of weird kickback for

it, what felt weird to me as a child.

552

:

I was also growing into a reader.

553

:

And, and starting to learn the

nuances between some different words.

554

:

And so I think I put some of that

together that if I craft my messaging

555

:

so that it's very particular to

what I mean, I be misunderstood.

556

:

If I at least can't be misunderstood.

557

:

Ben: Right.

558

:

Blakely: Then that will

diffuse so much conflict.

559

:

That at least I can control.

560

:

That's what's within my control,

is what I actually say, I'm

561

:

probably going to still say.

562

:

It's

563

:

Ben: Right.

564

:

Right.

565

:

I'm having a hard time finding

the connections of for this.

566

:

What the.

567

:

Whatever.

568

:

Cusp, Sagittarius, Capricorn, and INTP,

and maybe this isn't even the point.

569

:

Maybe this is just me, like,

570

:

Blakely: These are parts of me.

571

:

Ben: wanting to get intellectual here.

572

:

But what's the crossover

between that and 8s?

573

:

I mean, 8s are...

574

:

In your face.

575

:

They're passionate.

576

:

They want to drive forward.

577

:

they don't trust very easily.

578

:

Blakely: You know, I think the simplest

way I could describe it, if I sit as

579

:

an 8, I feel that Sagittarius is a 7,

580

:

Ben: Hmm.

581

:

Blakely: and Capricorn is a 9.

582

:

Ben: Interesting.

583

:

Blakely: I feel like there's a little

bit more of the responsible stuff that

584

:

lands with Capricorn, like a little bit

more rigidity, probably, than the, the.

585

:

The relaxed part of Nines, but there's

just a slower pace of Capricorn, I

586

:

think, of taking things in and thinking

things through and pretty particular

587

:

about proceeding through things.

588

:

Ben: Where Sagittarius more...

589

:

Blakely: like some of the intensity

I have definitely lands there.

590

:

But there's just so much, there's

more, enthusiasm and there,

591

:

Ben: and flexibility.

592

:

Flexibility, aspiration,

593

:

Blakely: like the idealist what could be.

594

:

that future oriented piece.

595

:

Mm hmm.

596

:

And so I think it's borrowing, I that

that's where the eight made sense to me.

597

:

Because I, I don't know if, we're

assuming that all this is true.

598

:

The Zodiac part made a lot of

sense to me when I realized I

599

:

was in between these two pieces.

600

:

And then, I feel like the eight

locks into that just in a nice way

601

:

of how it feels like I'm divided in.

602

:

Don't know why, I'm like afraid I'm a six,

and I think it's because it's actually

603

:

like the worst case scenario to me.

604

:

Ben: A six is the worst case scenario?

605

:

Blakely: I don't know if I

would cringe more at being a

606

:

one or a six, a six I think.

607

:

And it's because of, it's because of what

eights hate, which is that like, ugh, the

608

:

sniveling, scared person vulnerability.

609

:

it together.

610

:

are nervous about?

611

:

Why are you showing that to everyone?

612

:

Put it away.

613

:

Put it away.

614

:

Anyway.

615

:

Did

616

:

Ben: hmm.

617

:

Blakely: I don't know, maybe this is

just part of my journey, I feel like

618

:

I'm divided into two different parts.

619

:

And putting those together is what

I've been working at, through this time

620

:

that we've been talking about this.

621

:

Some of it

622

:

to

623

:

because I've changed

the elements of my life.

624

:

And some of it has been

so much on purpose.

625

:

Ben: it makes, it makes a lot

of sense to me because, we, we

626

:

started this knowing that, we do

this work and it's really easy.

627

:

Like we, we are professional helpers.

628

:

It's really easy to get lost

in helping other people.

629

:

It's really easy because the system,

the way that the system is, is working

630

:

and created it's about productivity.

631

:

It's about behavior.

632

:

It's, and it's about getting things done.

633

:

It's not about relationship.

634

:

It's not, doesn't care

about how well you are.

635

:

It's how much you do.

636

:

it's not about the quality of the work.

637

:

It's about how much of

the work you get done.

638

:

And the only work that really matters.

639

:

In that point of view is money and

what's related to money documentation.

640

:

not about did somebody really.

641

:

Uh, really qualitatively find courage to

get through a very hard, difficult time.

642

:

And now they don't have to come

see me nearly as much because

643

:

they finally made that connection

of what was holding them back.

644

:

No, it doesn't.

645

:

They don't like the system doesn't care.

646

:

And so we get taken advantage of.

647

:

We get objectified.

648

:

And because of that, our

relationships with each other

649

:

are not great most of the time.

650

:

And so supporting one another and being

with one another and, um, you know, being

651

:

for ourselves rather than for our clients

or for the system or anything like that,

652

:

it's just not, it's not made for that.

653

:

And so we have to turn toward

ourselves and turn toward

654

:

each other and be the work.

655

:

We got to do our own work.

656

:

And that's what this is.

657

:

This is, that's what this is all about.

658

:

Blakely: it's so strange to look at,

not objectively, because now I know

659

:

so much, but to look back at where

you start, and then where you end

660

:

up, there's like a 10 year span in

there that I just dove into work.

661

:

I, I was a student from

age five to age 25.

662

:

I spent 20 years collecting book

knowledge and developing into being

663

:

an adult on some level and never

fucking feeling like I'm an adult.

664

:

Let's be very clear.

665

:

I Never.

666

:

feel like a grown up.

667

:

And

668

:

Ben: me

669

:

Blakely: into work, but I was

actually becoming more of a grown up.

670

:

While I'm diving into all of this work,

I threw all of what I had into it.

671

:

I've spent all of my time learning

and growing and anticipating

672

:

how I could apply this.

673

:

I remember being an undergrad and

being, you know, having that grooming

674

:

to go on to grad school immediately

and saying to my professor, like, I

675

:

don't know enough about existing as

a person to go and research people.

676

:

Ben: hmm.

677

:

Blakely: I have to go be a person

for a while and figure it out.

678

:

And I still am not sure

that I ever did that

679

:

Ben: Mm.

680

:

Blakely: because I decided to go

and get my degree in social work.

681

:

I took a year of doing some

social work, learning that

682

:

social work is more what fit me.

683

:

I went and got that degree and then

I started working in child welfare

684

:

and it just, zoom, like it takes off.

685

:

And Slowly start chipping away

because you're inundated with decision

686

:

making inundated with responsibility.

687

:

That you slowly start chipping away

at what feels right in gut to do

688

:

what you know you have to do in the

paperwork and in the courtroom and in

689

:

the hospital and people's scary houses.

690

:

I very quickly became more

concerned with getting lice than...

691

:

Withholding to my comfort zone.

692

:

Ben: Mm

693

:

Blakely: I was already out of my comfort

zone, so that's just garbage pile.

694

:

Ben: And to safely

695

:

Blakely: comfort?

696

:

Absolutely!

697

:

Where to Park, How late

I could have a meeting?

698

:

Thinking about when changes so

that it's so dark at o'clock

699

:

that can't go do home visits.

700

:

So I need to do them earlier in

But people don't get home until the

701

:

evening so I am going in the dark

702

:

So, I'm

703

:

Ben: You're like, oh, next week,

the sun is setting, uh, 30 minutes

704

:

earlier, so we need to make sure

that we get done at a certain time,

705

:

Blakely: The ridiculous

706

:

things

707

:

yeah,

708

:

just to stay afloat, start to take

the forefront of decision making

709

:

and take the forefront of my,

like, actual thought processes.

710

:

so much we have to throw to the

wayside and throw in the background

711

:

and say I'll deal with it later.

712

:

It catches up, and it did catch up.

713

:

I got further and further away

from myself, so that I really

714

:

started to question, do I know her?

715

:

Ben: Right.

716

:

Yeah.

717

:

Blakely: some shit I used to know

about her that I haven't seen

718

:

evidence of in several years.

719

:

And I thought that's what I knew.

720

:

what I thought I knew already.

721

:

It's everyone else I needed to learn.

722

:

Ben: Exactly.

723

:

Blakely: It all just keeps spiraling

in on itself, and I have this strong

724

:

belief in the ways that things turn

over, in the in the turning of

725

:

the wheel of time, in the arboros,

726

:

Ben: Rober-os.

727

:

Blakely: arboros, every time I can't

say, still appreciate the imagery of.

728

:

Ben: Yes.

729

:

Blakely: and that was the

thing that was right there for

730

:

me, that I also couldn't see.

731

:

believe it, I know it, and

I still can't see it either.

732

:

Ben: I think that's the, a huge

thing that I've, I've maybe come

733

:

to like a big stepping stone or a

big developmental milestone is maybe

734

:

five, seven years ago, I started

to realize how much I didn't know.

735

:

think maybe I just started to slow

down and look around me and go, all

736

:

of the energy you're expending to

desperately get all of the information.

737

:

this is a never ending,

you will never get there.

738

:

And it just started to like,

naturally, Be unmotivational, I

739

:

realized, I just realized, oh,

you can see I got to slow down

740

:

Blakely: like

741

:

Ben: I looked around and I'm like, you

don't really like yourself that was

742

:

a huge thing of like, you think you

need to be an expert to like yourself.

743

:

Because everybody else has shown you,

and told you, you're not really that

744

:

valuable unless you know a lot, or you

have that license, or you can work with

745

:

that hard client, or whatever, unless

you have really good clinical feedback

746

:

to give in, in, group supervision, I

started to realize, unintentional,

747

:

but you have been an asshole.

748

:

you've objectified yourself and

everyone else along the way, and

749

:

this is exactly what you don't want

to do, and it's time to slow down.

750

:

Yeah.

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About the Podcast

Being the Work
Getting real about the lives of mental health professionals
Conversations with therapists, for therapists courageously cracking into our unspoken experiences. We seek to put voice to taboo topics in the helping professions, deepen our connections to each other, and ask the difficult questions of what it is to be fully human and a helper at the same time.
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